Host Intro (Gene Kim)

[00:00] So in the next session, uh, I'm super excited about

[00:02] because this is also community

[00:04] that have adopted SRE principles and patterns at large scale.

[00:07] So of course, I'm talking about

[00:08] site reliability engineering.

[00:10] Um, you know, that, uh,

[00:12] there's this amazing management system

[00:13] that creates self-balancing loops.

[00:15] Um, but many have noted that SREs often require people

[00:19] with considerable experience.

[00:21] Uh, in fact, in the 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey,

[00:24] they note that, quote, DevOps specialists

[00:27] and SREs are among the highest paid, most experienced,

[00:30] and also most satisfied with their jobs.

[00:33] So, uh, everyone in this community likely already knows Dr.

[00:37] Jennifer Petoff, currently director of Google Cloud Platform

[00:40] and Technical Infrastructure Education.

[00:42] She's spoken at this conference many times,

[00:44] including last year in Amsterdam,

[00:46] and we've learned so much, uh, from her.

[00:48] So, up next, she will talk about

[00:50] what the Google SRE organization is doing

[00:52] to create a new type of talent pipeline

[00:55] focusing on universities and new engineers.

[00:58] So, uh, Dr.

[00:59] Dr. Petoff, I can see you, uh, and I can see your slides.

Jennifer Petoff

[01:03] Um, hello everyone,

[01:05] and it's a, a pleasure to be here today at ETLS, um,

[01:09] coming at you from the, uh, equal experts, uh,

[01:12] watch party here in Lisbon.

[01:13] So, uh, as, as Gene said, I'm Jennifer Petoff,

[01:16] and as many of you know, I lead the Google Cloud platform

[01:20] and technical infrastructure education team at Google.

[01:22] But what many of you may not know is that I founded, uh,

[01:25] what I like to call the Google TechIE

[01:27] University outreach program in, in my 20% time.

[01:31] So I'm, I'm looking forward to talking to you about the work

[01:34] that we've done to recruit new graduates.

[01:36] So new grads into Google, SRE in Ireland,

[01:39] or what I like to think of as catalyzing a circle of life,

[01:42] you know, I don't know why, but this Lion King reference

[01:44] just seemed really appropriate to describe what we've built.

[01:47] Um, let's see if you agree after, after the presentation.

[01:52] So, let's start with our million euro question.

[01:55] Can we bootstrap new grads into new SREs?

[01:58] So, a site reliability engineering principles

[02:00] and practices, large system design

[02:02] and building for scale are things

[02:04] that are not typically taught at university

[02:06] or not, uh, consistently,

[02:08] at least not consistently across schools.

[02:10] So what would it take to interest students in the profession

[02:12] and equip them with the skills needed

[02:14] to succeed from the get go?

[02:17] So to level set, let me show you our starting points.

[02:22] So, when we asked ourselves this question, you know,

[02:24] can we bootstrap new grads into new SREs?

[02:26] We were actually hiring very, very few

[02:29] students into SRE roles, at least from universities

[02:32] and institutes of technology in Ireland, where,

[02:34] where I was living at the time.

[02:36] And I'll get into what the different colored lines mean

[02:38] later, but for now, what you need to know is

[02:40] that we weren't hiring a lot of interns,

[02:42] we weren't hiring a lot of full-time hires into SRE roles.

[02:47] So why might that be?

[02:49] So why wasn't there this natural flow

[02:51] of candidates into SRE roles?

[02:53] You know, we already talked about like we,

[02:55] we, we had to think about it.

[02:56] You know, we, we talked, we talked a little bit about the

[02:58] curriculum issue, but, uh, we, we thought about it

[03:01] and we came up with four key challenges.

[03:05] So, first, applicants students just weren't applying

[03:08] to SRE roles, uh, resume

[03:12] and CV quality was an issue.

[03:14] So the student CV quality wasn't enabling them to stand out

[03:17] among the applicants that we, that we were getting from,

[03:19] from other places in Europe and around the world.

[03:23] Interviews were also a challenge when students were being

[03:26] selected to interview, they didn't

[03:27] routinely do well in the process.

[03:31] And the final challenge was bandwidth.

[03:33] We, you know, we felt we weren't paying enough attention

[03:35] or spending enough effort to really improve the situation.

[03:39] So I am, I'm a scientist by training.

[03:41] You know, my nickname is Dr.

[03:42] J because I, I have a PhD in chemistry

[03:45] and started my, uh, career in that area.

[03:47] And I love to apply the,

[03:49] the scientific method in non-traditional ways.

[03:51] So as a starting point to begin to address these challenges,

[03:55] we formulated hypotheses about why each area

[03:57] could be, could be challenging.

[04:01] So why might applicants be a problem?

[04:03] So it could be, it could be that students just weren't aware

[04:05] that Google hires engineers in Ireland.

[04:08] It could be that students are afraid

[04:09] of our interview process, and it could be

[04:11] that students just don't know what an SRE is from a resume

[04:15] and CV quality perspective, you know,

[04:17] perhaps students weren't getting the practical coding

[04:19] experience that they needed outside of the classroom.

[04:22] Uh, students also maybe weren't trained on how

[04:25] to write a compelling cv.

[04:27] And, um, students are generally difficult

[04:29] to assess, assess on paper.

[04:30] They've got limited practical experience

[04:32] in general to draw from.

[04:35] Why might interviews be a, a problem?

[04:38] Why might they be having a problem here?

[04:40] So, uh, once again,

[04:41] students might not be getting the practical coding

[04:43] experience that they need to excel

[04:44] in an interview situation.

[04:46] Students might not be trained to talk

[04:47] through their thought process to, you know,

[04:49] give those interviewers that signal to evaluate them.

[04:52] They might not have enough experience coding on the spots.

[04:55] And, um, you know, it's tough like when, uh, when you're in,

[04:58] when you're in that hot seats, uh, students may get nervous.

[05:02] And then final, the final hypothesis, you know, was

[05:04] that results will improve if we invest

[05:07] more effort in this problem.

[05:08] 'em, okay, so in light of this,

[05:13] um, we formulated some solutions.

[05:16] So, for example, if our hypothesis was correct

[05:18] that students didn't know

[05:20] that Google hired engineers in Ireland,

[05:22] or if they didn't know what SRE was, we could address that

[05:24] with some signal boosting events.

[05:26] Uh, so we proposed to run a large scale open house at our

[05:29] offices in Dublin, as well as sending Google SRE to campus

[05:32] to do, to do tech talks.

[05:34] If our hypothesis was correct

[05:36] that students simply didn't know what, what

[05:37] to put in their cv, we believe we could address that

[05:40] with a workshop that specifically gave advice on

[05:43] what tech companies and in particular large American tech

[05:46] companies tend to look for.

[05:47] And we incorporated that into our open house.

[05:50] If our hypothesis,

[05:51] that practical coding experience was the issue,

[05:53] we thought we could address that

[05:54] by running algorithms workshops, code retreats.

[05:57] We also thought that by, uh, sponsoring coding competitions,

[06:01] this would signal to students the importance

[06:02] of getting some hands-on experience at prob at

[06:05] problem solving with code.

[06:07] And finally, if awareness of SRE as a profession

[06:09] and practical coding experience were indeed impeding our

[06:12] efforts to recruit new grads,

[06:14] we thought focusing on internships could help.

[06:16] The barrier to entry for internships tends to be lower

[06:19] for both the students and the company.

[06:21] And in some ways it's, it's a good try

[06:22] before you buy, uh, SRE as a, as a full-time career choice.

[06:29] And of course, all of these activities cater

[06:31] to our hypothesis

[06:32] that results will improve if we invest more effort in

[06:34] getting to know and helping students in Ireland.

[06:38] Okay, hypotheses, proposed solutions.

[06:40] This is all well and good in theory.

[06:43] How did this work out in practice?

[06:45] So I showed you a sneak peek of the graph at the start

[06:47] of the talk, and you saw how we were doing very little new

[06:49] grad hiring out of universities in, its in Ireland.

[06:53] So how far did we, how far have we come

[06:55] and how long did it take?

[06:57] So here you can see the full graph.

[06:59] And while I can't share exact numbers with you today,

[07:02] I can say that over the course of eight years,

[07:05] we increased the number of students hired from universities

[07:07] in its in Ireland by, by well over 10x.

[07:11] And, uh, these improvements were collectively across a

[07:14] number of different internship programs that we run

[07:16] and different types of full-time roles.

[07:20] So now that I've showed you what we were able to achieve,

[07:23] let me tell you a bit more about

[07:25] what we learned along the way, uh, that, you know, we,

[07:27] you can hopefully apply in your,

[07:28] your own organizations as well.

[07:30] So I believe that we all benefit

[07:31] by promoting site reliability, engineering

[07:34] and DevOps as a profession.

[07:36] And, uh, while I'm doing this, uh,

[07:38] with these lessons learned, I'll also intersperse, uh,

[07:41] some specific success stories

[07:42] or as I like to say, you know, who we met along the way.

[07:46] So number one, networks

[07:48] and social media are important amplifiers.

[07:51] So we set up a dedicated hashtag

[07:53] that students could tune into to learn about events,

[07:55] placements, educational materials.

[07:57] And I use that hashtag to reinforce the importance

[08:00] of practical experience outside the classroom, uh, in terms

[08:03] of landing and internship, or a full-time role in tech.

[08:06] I also use the hashtag to share CV best practices and tips.

[08:11] Cultivating contacts among faculty

[08:12] and career services is also key if you want

[08:15] to raise awareness about SRE, about placements, about things

[08:18] that are important to a career in industry after graduation.

[08:22] I also found that connecting on LinkedIn was super helpful.

[08:24] So I always encourage students to connect

[08:26] with me on LinkedIn to forge deeper connections

[08:29] and to drive awareness of events, placements

[08:31] and resources that might, might help them.

[08:33] And this actually worked so well that at one point,

[08:36] career services at a couple

[08:37] of schools in Ireland were actually

[08:39] encouraging students to connect with me.

[08:41] I kept getting these random inbound LinkedIn requests and,

[08:44] and when I asked what was driving it, that's

[08:46] what the, the students told me.

[08:48] Uh, we also found that by taking time to reply

[08:50] to inquiries from those who connected with, uh,

[08:53] with us was, was very useful.

[08:54] So it helped students really feel like individuals rather

[08:57] than like a group we were marketing ourselves and an SRE to.

[09:00] And I found that it helped build trust

[09:02] and that the f the students felt, uh, special and supported.

[09:06] So let's delve into a, a quick success story.

[09:09] So here I'd like you to meet Adam.

[09:11] So Adam did a bachelor's in computer science at the

[09:14] University College Cork.

[09:15] He attended one of the first Google Tech,

[09:17] ie open houses at the Google offices in Dublin.

[09:20] He also participated in IRLCPC,

[09:23] the All Ireland Coding Competition,

[09:24] where Google sponsored prizes for the winning teams.

[09:27] Adam also attended some of our algorithms workshop,

[09:30] and again, all of these events were heavily promoted via

[09:32] that dedicated hashtag that I, that I mentioned

[09:34] and via our contacts with universities.

[09:36] So after doing a placement at Dublin City University,

[09:39] Adam came on board for six months, uh,

[09:42] to do an internship at Google in Dublin.

[09:44] After graduation, he became a full-time Ads ML SRE

[09:48] and has steadily grown his career at Google over the last,

[09:51] uh, five or six years.

[09:52] So Adam's now a tech lead within Ads ML SRE

[09:55] and it's been promoted to staff engineer, so a Staff SRE

[09:58] so really proud of what Adam has been able to accomplish.

[10:03] So the second thing we learned was that it's important

[10:05] to accept a little bit of toil for the greater good.

[10:08] So as we all know, SREs, loathe, toil,

[10:11] however, it's important to treat people as individuals.

[10:14] So reply to inquiries help where you can,

[10:16] this is not a classic SRE cattle, not pets situation.

[10:20] Uh, take that time to provide a personal touch.

[10:22] Follow up with students who successfully land an internship,

[10:25] uh, an internship or a full-time role.

[10:28] In addition, follow up with the others who were not selected

[10:31] after interviewing or who declined your offer.

[10:35] Keep meticulous records

[10:36] to show incremental progress in the short term on the

[10:38] recruiting front, while really recognizing that this type

[10:41] of program is a long-term commitment, I take steps

[10:46] to build a diverse pipeline.

[10:47] So what are some of the ways that you can, you can do this?

[10:51] Um, first of all, look beyond the the top schools.

[10:54] Cast a wide net

[10:55] and be inclusive about the schools

[10:57] you build relationships with.

[10:58] Don't just focus on the very top academic institutions.

[11:01] Uh, look into partnering, you know, partnering with, uh, um,

[11:05] different student groups.

[11:07] Um, one thing I was gonna say in terms, in terms

[11:09] of the Beyond the Top schools piece,

[11:11] before we started the program, you know, any hires

[11:13] that we did happen to get came from places like Trinity

[11:16] College, Dublin, so TCB, it's a school

[11:18] that's not only in our own backyard,

[11:20] but is one of the top CS programs in Ireland.

[11:22] So I'm proud to say that over the course of seven years,

[11:25] we've brought, uh, you onboard interns

[11:27] and full-time hires from nearly every university

[11:30] in it across Ireland.

[11:33] Uh, another thing to do,

[11:34] leverage employees from underrepresented groups.

[11:37] For example, I know when I speak at events targeted

[11:39] to women in tech, I get more people coming up

[11:41] to me afterwards or invitations

[11:43] to connect on LinkedIn than my, than my male colleagues do.

[11:49] So now let's meet Catalina.

[11:50] So in her first year of college,

[11:51] she attended our Google TechIE

[11:53] Open house where she first, uh,

[11:55] found out about opportunities for internships.

[11:58] She also saw some fellow Trinity students in a student panel

[12:00] and decided to ask for more details

[12:02] on the application process.

[12:04] Uh, she applied in her first year.

[12:05] Unfortunately, she did not get accepted,

[12:07] but knowing the interview process really helped

[12:10] her, uh, in preparing.

[12:12] And after that, uh, she attended an algorithms workshop and,

[12:14] and credit and Catalina credits those events

[12:17] as really helpful in securing an internship

[12:19] and eventually a full-time job.

[12:21] You know, I also remember meeting

[12:22] and talking to Catalina at Hopper Local Dublin.

[12:25] So that's a local variant of the Grace Hopper

[12:27] Conference for Women in Tech.

[12:28] And to me, this refor, it reinforces how important it is

[12:31] to simply show up at events like this

[12:33] that are focused on groups who are underrepresented in tech.

[12:38] So we also learned that volunteers

[12:40] and role models are critical to success.

[12:42] So, um, activate recent grads

[12:44] who are working in your organization.

[12:46] For example, you know, host a panel with recent grads.

[12:49] We did this, we did this regularly as either one-off events

[12:52] or by incorporating the panel into our open house

[12:54] utilize alumni networks.

[12:56] So appoint alumni champions to work with their alma maters.

[12:59] You really wanna inspire, I could do that.

[13:01] You know, the goal here is to help current students see

[13:04] what's possible and, and to see themselves

[13:06] and the volunteers that we send to campus, you know, so, so

[13:09] for example, early on it, it was all well

[13:11] and good to send me out to campus

[13:13] or to speak at our open house.

[13:15] However, we definitely got feedback

[13:16] that I am not necessarily as relatable to the students

[13:19] as someone who graduated more recently

[13:21] and who graduated from a third level institution in Ireland.

[13:24] However, once we had sort of bootstrap,

[13:26] bootstrapped this whole thing

[13:27] and catalyzed our circle of life, uh,

[13:30] and by circle of life, I mean these are the people we've

[13:32] hired through the program who are now

[13:33] volunteering in support of the program.

[13:36] It was much easier to have SREs who were way more relatable

[13:39] to the students participating in our outreach.

[13:41] Finally, the fourth point on this slide, it's important

[13:44] to demystify what the role is like.

[13:46] So if you send engineering

[13:48] or SRE volunteers out to campus rather than recruiters,

[13:51] you have to talk about what they do.

[13:53] It can really help build excitement about

[13:54] internships and full-time roles.

[13:58] So now let's meet Daniel. So Daniel was one

[14:00] of the first people we hired through the program.

[14:03] And, uh, here's a little bit about Daniel in his own words.

[14:05] Um, so he says, I decided

[14:07] to start a career in tech when I was 25.

[14:09] I applied for a Google internship in my first year,

[14:11] but didn't succeed in a second year.

[14:14] I attended the open house where I met Jen

[14:15] and learned a ton about CV crafting

[14:17] and interviews that, uh, helped me successfully apply

[14:20] for an SRE internship.

[14:22] I had a great experience, then tried out being a suite

[14:24] intern in London before deciding to convert to a full-time,

[14:27] uh, employee in SRE with a team I first interned on.

[14:30] And, um, as soon as as, as soon as I became an FTE,

[14:34] I was excited to pay it forward.

[14:35] The same opportunities that had been life changing for me.

[14:38] I began to run events with the uni

[14:40] with the university I graduated from.

[14:41] People often remembered me as a fellow student,

[14:43] and it made it easy for me to engage

[14:46] with them and vice versa.

[14:49] So another thing that we learned is that it's important

[14:52] to be a good partner.

[14:54] So while, while, while being, uh, willing

[14:56] to go rogue if you meet resistance, so in this case, um,

[14:59] make friends with your staffing team.

[15:01] So you need their expertise, you need their processes

[15:04] and their support in order to be successful.

[15:06] Recruit a recruiter to join your core team.

[15:09] However, if you do run into resistance, ask

[15:11] for forgiveness rather than, rather than permission.

[15:14] And when you run into people who are skeptical,

[15:16] understand why they're skeptical,

[15:18] and then bring the data that demonstrates small

[15:20] and steady progress.

[15:24] And let's see. So another thing

[15:29] that we found is that it's important to play the long game.

[15:31] So you saw on my graph that we,

[15:33] we've been at it for over eight years.

[15:35] And that said, it's also important

[15:37] to demonstrate shorter term wins,

[15:39] to keep your stakeholders happy.

[15:41] So things like, uh, you know, focus on,

[15:44] uh, intern recruiting.

[15:45] So the stakes and barriers to entry tend to be lower.

[15:48] Uh, and placements really give those students hands-on

[15:50] experience that will help them be successful in

[15:52] an industry once they graduate.

[15:54] You know, convert those interns to full-time hires you,

[15:56] whether it's after one internship or three,

[15:59] or even a few years after graduation.

[16:01] Promote feeder roles.

[16:02] So SRE might not be the right role

[16:04] for some students immediately after graduation.

[16:07] Are there other roles, roles that may be more suited

[16:09] and they can grow into SRE down the road?

[16:12] And again, communicate incremental progress in,

[16:14] in driving applications in number of interviews

[16:17] and intern hire and full-time hire

[16:19] and full-time hires do this at least once a year.

[16:24] Um, 'cause basically if your stakeholders hear nothing,

[16:27] they might assume nothing is happening

[16:28] or that the program's not successful.

[16:32] So Sophie is a great example of the effectiveness

[16:34] of the strategy of focusing on intern hiring.

[16:36] So she completed three,

[16:37] three placements in different functions

[16:39] and in different locations before joining Google SRE

[16:42] and Dublin full-time.

[16:43] And, uh, Sophie's now celebrating, I think her two year,

[16:46] second year, uh, Google Bursary, uh, as we speak.

[16:52] Okay, so what else did we learn?

[16:54] I've implicitly shared this with some of the case studies

[16:56] so far, but let's lay it out explicitly.

[16:59] We've also found that it's important

[17:00] to take a very broad view of success

[17:02] with a program like this.

[17:05] Uh, so take a broad view of success in terms of location.

[17:07] So we were focused on recruiting from schools in Ireland,

[17:10] but success equals placing a student anywhere in the world.

[17:15] Uh, we took a broad view of success in terms of roles.

[17:18] So we focused on recruiting for SRE roles, but,

[17:21] but success to us equals placing a student in a wide

[17:23] range of engineering roles.

[17:25] Uh, timing is another consideration.

[17:27] So we wanted to recruit new grads,

[17:29] but success equals hiring any student who engaged

[17:32] with our programs even after they graduated.

[17:34] And then finally, we were focused on recruiting for Google,

[17:37] but we considered as a success if a student pursued SRE

[17:40] as a profession anywhere.

[17:45] So Aiden's another great example of success in the,

[17:48] in the location and role flexibility categories.

[17:51] So he did all his Google internships with SRE in Dublin,

[17:54] but eventually took a role as a software engineer, uh,

[17:57] working with the Fitbit team in, in Bucharest, Romania.

[17:59] Uh, he recently moved back to Dublin

[18:02] to take a role on the Google SRE team.

[18:04] And this helps support my personal hypothesis

[18:06] that all roads lead to SRE eventually.

[18:09] And uh, yeah, we were also pleased to learn

[18:11] that Aiden availed of a number

[18:12] of our outreach programs like the Open House,

[18:14] the Algorithms workshop,

[18:16] he competed in the All Ireland coding competition.

[18:18] And in Aiden, in Aiden's own words, he said, you know,

[18:21] I wouldn't be here without all the work you

[18:22] and the other SRE EDU core team put into outreach

[18:25] and hosting the student events that I attended.

[18:30] Now I'd like to introduce you to Eimear.

[18:32] So Eimear did an undergraduate degree in computer science.

[18:35] She attended our open house

[18:37] and, uh, two women focused events,

[18:39] two women in tech focused events that we ran.

[18:41] But she didn't, she didn't do an internship at Google.

[18:43] Instead, she only joined an SRE team in

[18:46] Dublin upon graduation.

[18:48] But she says, you know, I think the open house

[18:50] and the other events that I attended heavily encouraged me

[18:53] to apply and become a Google SRE.

[18:55] And, uh, she worked with us for a few years

[18:57] before taking a year off

[18:58] to complete a master's degree in computer animation

[19:01] and visual effects in the uk.

[19:03] Uh, she finished that master's in early 2020, decided

[19:06] to come back to SRE at Google,

[19:08] given the uncertainties of the pandemic.

[19:10] Uh, she soon became an SRE manager leading a team

[19:12] of Google Cloud SREs in Dublin.

[19:15] Uh, Eimear left Google last year to pursue her dream

[19:18] of working in animation, and she's now a general technical

[19:20] director for Walt Disney Animation Studios in Vancouver.

[19:24] So, so even though we miss Eimear greatly, we're, we're certain

[19:27] that she still continues to fly that flag

[19:29] for reliability at Disney.

[19:30] And, and we still think that's a huge, a huge win.

[19:33] So go Eimear. Okay,

[19:36] so now let me show the final thing that we learned.

[19:38] Uh, so make self sustaining.

[19:40] So in the beginning, I was essentially a

[19:42] sp a single point of failure.

[19:44] And after the first year though, uh, the program started

[19:47] to gain traction, I was able

[19:48] to recruit additional help on the program.

[19:50] So current SRE program managers in Google, Irelands.

[19:54] And after, after a few years, the circle

[19:55] of life really kicked in.

[19:57] I recruited people like Adam and Eimear

[20:00] and Daniel to really fuel the momentum.

[20:02] So what started out with one SRE program manager, you know me

[20:06] with a passion for recruiting in my 20% time, we,

[20:09] we effectively bootstrapped this into a robust

[20:11] and sustainable SRE hiring pipeline.

[20:14] So our core team of volunteers now has four generations

[20:18] of ses, where a ge, a generation is considered

[20:20] to be students hired by the PRO program in a given year.

[20:23] And we've got these folks who are

[20:25] running and sustaining the program.

[20:26] In fact, I did such a good job of eliminating myself

[20:29] as a single point of failure that I was able to move

[20:31] to Portugal in 2022.

[20:33] And program momentum continued unabated

[20:35] under Daniel's leadership.

[20:39] So returning to our million euro question,

[20:42] can we bootstrap new grads into new SREs?

[20:46] I think based on on the examples that we've seen,

[20:48] the answer is a resounding yes.

[20:51] So let me just give you the key takeaways.

[20:54] So SRE may not be taught in school,

[20:56] but that isn't an insurmountable obstacle

[20:58] to new grad hiring, awareness raising

[21:01] and skill building is a winning formula.

[21:04] Can you bootstrap new grads into new SREs? Yes.

[21:07] If you're willing to put in the effort. Thank you.

[21:12] I think we're out of time. Sorry to run over on Eugene.

Host Outro (Gene Kim)

[21:14] No, Jennifer, thank you so much.

[21:16] And by the way, uh, at, when I first heard about this,

[21:18] I would've thought that this was a preposterous proposition

[21:21] and just, uh, congratulations on those achievements.

[21:23] It's so cool to hear those stories. Thank you so much.

[21:26] Uh, Dr. Petoff.